Nina Mullen: [00:01:51] Thank you so much for having me on, Maria. It’s great to be here.

Nina Mullen: [00:02:15] Well, Hilma is a natural remedies brand that we create scientifically-backed everyday natural remedies that you can use in your life, whether it’s for upset stomach relief, tension relief, immune support, et cetera. And the reason for being behind Hilma is, of course, a personal one. Myself and my two co-founders, Hilary Quartner and Lily Galef, all had various kind of childhood experiences with natural products that kind of led us to live a more naturally inclined life when it came to the decisions we were making across our cosmetics, our food, our personal care items, and the category of OTC health remedies. Things like Emergen-C, for example, really felt stuck in the past.

Nina Mullen: [00:03:03] And so Hilma aims basically to fill that void in the market by creating accessible natural and herbal options for a more mainstream consumer who has less education around exactly what herbs to use, or perhaps frankly, less time to kind of delve in and take those purchasing decisions into their own hands. And so that’s why we started Hilma.

Nina Mullen: [00:04:13] Yeah. I mean, it’s really amazing how long it has taken to get here. When we first had this idea, we had a good three-week period where we were basically like, why hasn’t anybody else done this yet? Because it just felt so incongruous with the purchasing decisions that so many people were making. Clean household cleaners had come out and kind of become mainstream five years before. And these are products that people are using for their health. So it definitely seemed incongruous.

Nina Mullen: [00:04:58] Definitely. So few different questions in there. I’ll start with how we tackle the formulation process and overall. So from day one of starting Hilma, we each knew that herbs were very powerful from our own personal experiences. And I can get into that later as well, for healing these types of issues that we were basically aiming to solve. And so that was always the overarching vision, was to bring herbal natural remedies to the US because it is so prevalent in so many other cultures and there’s so much research behind it. Plants are the starting off point for many pharmaceutical drugs. For example, willow bark, which is the hero ingredient in our tension relief product, is actually the reason why Aspirin was discovered because it’s a naturally occurring source of salicylic acid.

Nina Mullen: [00:05:48] So there’s a lot of research that already exists in herbs, which is an amazing, kind of something that we reference all the time. And it’s an important aspect of our brand. So in terms of how we approach R&D, science was the core tenant of how we started off creating this brand. There are a lot of herbal brands on the market. They tend to be less trusted by the more mainstream consumer because they are not presenting research in kind of, the more clinical Western way. And so we knew that in order to bring herbals to that, I would say more skeptical consumer, we needed to make science a huge part of how we approached R&D overall from day one.

Nina Mullen: [00:06:35] So what we did was we went out to recruit an amazing team of scientists to work with us. And so we now have five scientific advisors who are all equity owners in the business. They’re partners with us and they work with us to both formulate our products as well as advise us on the latest research that’s going on in the market, but also our own clinical research, which is a huge part of our process as well. And once we assembled that team, we really worked with them to figure out what products we could create in order to adhere to a certain standard of scientific rigor. And by that, I mean that we are hamstrung by what research already exists if we’re trying to create a product that has a depth of clinical research behind it already.

Nina Mullen: [00:07:26] So, for example, we couldn’t create a product to solve a very niche issue using herbs because herbs probably haven’t yet been researched for that indication. And so we eliminate from the get-go certain indications if there is not a wealth of research behind it. And then from there we basically whittle down which herbs we want to include. And we also included essential minerals as well in some of our products. So we whittle down the ingredients that we’re interested in, including based on the demonstrated efficacy that exists in the scientific literature. And then from there, we also layer on top our own clinical research, which is a phased approach over time since we can’t launch clinicals on everything prior to launch. But we layer that on top of that as well.

Nina Mullen: [00:08:45] Definitely. And it’s a huge problem in the industry and one that I think has come into the public’s eye much more so, which is good and should be under scrutiny. So how do we source our herbs? We again lean on the best. We have, as I mentioned, our scientific experts but we also have an amazing sourcing expert who comes from one of the legacy herbal brands that is truly doing best-in-class sourcing work where you can scan QR codes on bottles and actually see where your herbs are grown. And he has personally visited pretty much every herbal farm in the world. And he really is incredible. And he advises us and knows. We get to meet with all of our suppliers and kind of understand the process ourselves so that we can feel comfortable with it. And once he recommends a source, and we always kind of keep in mind all of the things that you mentioned in terms of adulteration and all of that. But then we also do our own testing.

Nina Mullen: [00:09:48] We do four rounds of testing on raw materials in-process, finished goods, and stability testing. And then on top of that, we also submit all of our products to third-party certifications. So the one that we really are the most proud of is the Clean Label Project, which is pretty much the most rigorous standard for not only pesticides, heavy metals, but also plasticizers and other contaminants that can get into the product. And it’s by far more rigorous than anything that is required by the FDA and basically is a stamp of third-party approval. They spot-check our products. They order from our website at various intervals. And it’s something we’re really proud of because it’s pretty much unheard of in the supplement industry for more mass brands to undergo that type of third-party testing.

Nina Mullen: [00:11:09] Yeah, it’s amazing that it’s not required.

Nina Mullen: [00:11:42] Definitely. I love talking about our clinicals so I could talk about this all day. There are a few different reasons why we decided to do this so early on because it is a huge investment, both in time, team resources, but also financially. They’re really expensive to run. As you might imagine, running studies on real people requires a lot of effort and coordination. But we felt both from a trust-building perspective on our products themselves, but also just from an industry perspective that we really wanted to put our money where our mouth is. We’re saying that science is important to us. Well, guess what? We should also be researching and contributing to the body of research that everyone is able to pull from when it comes to plant medicine.

Nina Mullen: [00:12:29] Because it is an underfunded area in terms of clinical research and one that we think aims, which should be, it should increase whether it’s academic institutions, whether it’s private companies. Everyone who is leaning into this trend of natural should also be contributing to the body of scientific research. And so that’s really why we decided to invest here. And it is going kind of, it’s very unique for us, as a private supplement company to do the type of research we did and to publish the results so publicly because a lot of people want to protect AIP once they run a study.

Nina Mullen: [00:13:07] But for us, as I said, we believe that studying plants should be information that everyone has access to. And that’s why we kind of made the more public decision there. And in terms of how we ran those, there’s a bunch of different types of clinicals that you can do. We did foundational clinical studies to establish a baseline for product performance, and we aim to do future clinicals on the products that we’ve ran these foundational studies on in the future as well. So what I mean by a foundational study is we gave, in a controlled environment with a CRO, we completely blinded, we gave between 70 to 100 people our product who were prequalified, met predetermined criteria, and asked them to chronicle their experience over a dedicated period of time. And so that varied because we’ve run three clinical on three different products, depending on the product that we were testing.

Nina Mullen: [00:14:04] But essentially what it allowed us to do is observe if you take this product 30 minutes after experiencing heartburn or indigestion, in the case of our upset stomach relief product, how do your symptoms change over time from the moment that you experience the problem to 15 minutes later, 30 minutes later, 60 minutes later, et cetera? And that’s the type of structure that we followed.

Nina Mullen: [00:14:42] Definitely. I think our early adopters who are really loyal, vocally supportive customers, love our clinicals because they are that more educated consumer who is looking to make really proactive decisions. And they’re the ones who get into the weeds and kind of read all the information on the website. And then there are consumers who just kind of see that we did it and it checks a box for them and they’re excited to see that we did it, but they don’t really dig into the details. So it’s kind of, it depends on the type of consumer that you are. But I think we’re getting more and more of the people reading the fine print, especially in the supplement space. As you mentioned already, people have a little bit more skepticism than they used to because of all of the negative information that’s come out about adulteration and things like that in the industry. So I do think that it’s a trust-building thing for a lot of consumers.

Nina Mullen: [00:15:45] Yeah.

Nina Mullen: [00:16:05] Yeah, so one quick point of clarification. You are required… The FDA actually does regulate supplements. You are required to test your product to make sure that what you say is in it, is in it. The thing that you’re not required to do, is test for pesticides and adhere to a more rigorous standard for heavy metal testing. You actually are required to test for heavy metals at a more lenient level. But anyway, that’s aside. That was certainly a surprise. I think another surprise for us was as we started to dig into the customer need, was just how little information there was for people who wanted to shop by solution rather than ingredients.

Nina Mullen: [00:16:53] So there are a lot of brands that exist in the single ingredient space. And this is if you think about walking into a vitamin aisle or a natural foods store in their supplement section, this is where you see a ton of people marketing things like vitamin B or single ingredients where the burden is really on the consumer to understand why should I be taking this? How should I be taking this? How is this going to impact me? So that was one thing that I think really surprised us as we started to dig in because that’s not how a lot of people shop. A lot of people shop by saying, I have this problem. I think I might be coming down with something. How do I support my immune system? Or I think I’m experiencing occasional heartburn or acid indigestion. What can I do that’s natural? That will help me both in the moment, but also preventatively in the long term. And so that was another big surprise.

Nina Mullen: [00:17:47] I think the other thing is really just an appreciation for how challenging it is to bring a physical product to market. So one of the benefits of being an outsider when you’re an entrepreneur is you’re the one who says, well, why not? Why not? Just because other people aren’t doing this that doesn’t mean that we can’t do it differently. And that’s really where the innovation comes from. And then as you get farther and farther into it, you’re like, wow, this is really harsh. And it takes so much to actually bring it to life. And I think that there’s the naiveté going in as an entrepreneur that we’re going to sail through and then timelines change and then things get delayed. And then you find out that the crop yield of Boswellia was low this year and all of a sudden that changes your plans. And so I think that was another thing that we really learned.

Nina Mullen: [00:18:53] Two and a half years. It was a really long road because our product involves so much science and rigor around the testing and everything that we’ve talked about. You know, it took us a really long time. And I think that’s actually something that we’re proud of because we didn’t kind of just flip a switch and turn something, throw up a website and start selling something. But it has certainly been a long road from idea to actual sell.

Nina Mullen: [00:19:55] Definitely. I do think that the third-party certifications is really a great stamp of approval that consumers should be looking for. I also think keeping a close eye on… Obviously, everyone looks at the supplement facts label to understand what’s in the product. But I always really spend a lot of time looking at the other ingredients section, which is kind of in the smaller, finer print underneath the supplement box grid, because that also tells you a lot about what is in the product. Is that a really long section? If yes, you know, start kind of paying a little bit closer attention. Maybe there’s a reason for it. I don’t know, but that’s definitely a place that consumers can spend a little bit more time. And then I just think getting to know the brand in this day and age where we have so many options of who we choose to support with our dollars. You know I think that getting to know the brand, understanding what they stand for and the people behind it is also a great thing for people to do.

Nina Mullen: [00:21:35] It’s a great question and it’s different for everyone. Everyone has a different kind of level of comfort. I would say for us, one of the biggest ones that is used in supplements is steroids, which are basically processing flow agents that make it easier for a product to be shelf-stable for very, very long periods of time. But one of the negatives of steroids in products is that it actually decreases the absorber ability of the product. So, again, as we’re talking about adulterants, it’s less that it’s an adulterant, but it actually is decreasing the efficacy of what you’re buying. Which is, of course, the opposite of what you want. So I think that’s one that I always tell people to really look out for.

Nina Mullen: [00:22:18] And also, we only use… We’re vegan as a brand. And that actually is not, it’s not totally uncommon nowadays in the supplement industry. But you want to keep a really close eye on the capsule, as you mentioned. Because if you’re not getting a vegetarian capsule that is explicitly labeled as a vegetarian capsule, which is made out of vegetable, cellulose, and water, then there oftentimes can be animals in the capsule itself, which is just kind of unnecessary and gross when you’re taking a supplement. So I think that’s another one that I always tell people to look out for. We have an amazing no-list on our website, which we love kind of directing consumers to because it gives some of the explanation around every single ingredient that’s on it and why we don’t include it.

Nina Mullen: [00:23:06] So I could go on and on, but fake sweeteners and generally sweeteners in general that aren’t even not-fake sweeteners or something that a lot of people are trying to avoid. And there are all different names for how they can be called on the label. So sometimes an everyday consumer might not even know that it is a sweetener because it’s such an unrecognizable name. So that’s a great resource for people that is just as the compilation of all of our research that I think is a great place for them to check out too.

Nina Mullen: [00:23:43] So we launched at the very end of January 2020.

Nina Mullen: [00:24:11] You’re exactly right. So I guess on the personal side, just like everybody else, March and April and ongoing, but March and April especially. Last year were just terrifying months for everyone in the world, and I think being a small business owner and a new business owner during that time just amplifies your level of uncertainty around, you know, are we going to be able to survive this? And thankfully, we were in a product category that was generally still relevant and of interest. As you mentioned, people were thinking about their health and that was a huge blessing for us as a small brand.

Nina Mullen: [00:24:55] And then beyond that, I would say the biggest challenge during that time was figuring out how we wanted to market ourselves. That was a month where we had… Those few months were months where we had all of our exciting launch moments planned like events, PR moments, things like that, that obviously had to be canceled. But then on top of that, what level of marketing should any brand be doing when we don’t even know what’s going on in this life and death situation across the globe? And so we ended up really pulling back a lot of marketing during that time, which meant that our growth slowed, obviously. But that was kind of the decision that we made personally.

Nina Mullen: [00:25:37] And we took a few months to basically like regroup, work on our product development for future launches, kind of work on our operations because it was also a time where a lot of manufacturing was really slowed and impacted. So that’s kind of what we did during that time. And then since then, though, it’s been a great time to be in the natural remedy space because people are interested in holistic and preventative health. They’ve always been, but especially now. And as people’s spending shifts, you’re spending less on jeans and handbags and whatever else and more on yourself and investing in yourself and your health. So we definitely have been able to be a part of that growth.

Nina Mullen: [00:26:41] We launched direct-to-consumer primarily because number one, as a small brand, it’s the easiest to kind of spool up a storefront online. But we also felt like one of the core differences that we wanted our brand to have is this educational and caregiving element to our brand, which is that you don’t just buy our product and kind of move along. We give you information about how to use it. We check in on you to make sure that it’s integrating into your routine and all of that. And that whole aspect of our brand needs to be fostered through an online community. So that was always very, very important to us for brand building and community building reasons.

Nina Mullen: [00:27:25] But that said, we are a brand that tends to be shopped in a moment of need. Online penetration in the categories that we play in is low and that I know myself as a consumer that checks out with how I shop the category. When I feel like I’m coming down with something I’ll go to the store and I’ll buy the five products that I want to have in my arsenal during that next week or two. And so we knew that we needed to be available in a moment of need very early on in our life cycle.

Nina Mullen: [00:27:58] And of course, we had to stage that. We couldn’t just be everywhere all at once because nobody would want to take a risk on us. But what we did was we started off with our direct-to-consumer channel, but also select offline brand building locations. So these are places in hospitality, when people were traveling, having health-related products is super important and is actually a very high occurrence moment for people to experience some type of pain point. Also, kind of cult wellness locations so places like Erewhon in L.A., which is just a go-to destination for a lot of people for brand discovery in this space. So we launched in around 50 doors across the country that we consider this like brand-building locations.

Nina Mullen: [00:28:47] And then from there, over the course of the year, we launched in a few additional online locations that are very curated for wellness. So Thrive Market, if you’re familiar. Grove Collaborative have been great accounts for us because our customers are really there. And then we actually most recently launched Target one month ago, which we’re in seven hundred and fifty Target stores. So not every target, but their health and wellness stores.

Nina Mullen: [00:29:24] That’s one of our brand-building locations.

Nina Mullen: [00:29:31] Me too.

Nina Mullen: [00:29:37] Thank you.

Nina Mullen: [00:29:50] So it’s a great question and I think it differs every day. But I’ll start off by saying it’s not easy. And so I think that I would love to sit here and project this vision of everyone can do it all, but it’s hard and it takes a village. And I think the biggest insight that I’ve had from being a parent is it changes your relationship to times so dramatically. Now, everything that I do, I feel is borrowed time from something else. When I’m working, it’s borrowed time from being with my daughter. When I’m with my daughter, it’s borrowed time from working or doing things around the house to help maintain our life, our lifestyle. When I’m working out or doing something for myself, it’s borrowing time from my daughter or work. And so that can very quickly fall to the bottom of the totem pole.

Nina Mullen: [00:30:45] And I just say that having a partner who understands how important it is, especially as a woman who, as we know from the research tells us, get saddled with the majority of the housework and child care duties. Having a partner who knows the importance of you having time for yourself, working out, doing whatever it is that makes you feel good in your body, having that person understand the importance of that is what will enable you to do it. And so that is what I have with my husband. You know he takes the baby from five-thirty to six-thirty. I take the baby from six-thirty to seven-thirty so he can work out. Then he takes the baby from seven-thirty to eight-thirty so that I can work out. So we kind of have this morning situation which has enabled me to feel healthy and happy and have that moment for myself before the day gets away from me. Without that, I think it would be really, really hard.

Nina Mullen: [00:31:44] And then the other thing that’s just the unspoken, really important thing is child care. If you want to be an entrepreneur and invest the time in your business that we all know it takes, because I know Maria, you know how much it takes too. You need to have a plan for child care and a plan that you feel good about and not guilty about. So for me, right now, I’m actually living at my parent’s house with my husband and my daughter, and we’re doing a multigenerational child care situation, which is really special. It’s also not totally sustainable for my parents. So we will be getting a caregiver when we go back to the city. But for this transitional time where we’re so vulnerable and raw, it’s been really amazing to be here.

Nina Mullen: [00:32:40] Definitely.

Nina Mullen: [00:32:48] Well, we are going to be launching a number of new products. We actually launched four products this past quarter, so it’s a very exciting quarter for us. And we are going to be launching, kind of continuing that trajectory, and launching new products both deeper within the categories that we already offer products. So digestive health, immune health, and kind of pain and tension management, but also venturing into new categories.

Nina Mullen: [00:33:14] So we believe that plants can be effective treatments for a lot of different things, including things like sleep, things like female health, and a variety of others that we are going to be kind of looking into and expanding into in the coming months and years. And beyond that, we hope to increase our footprint so that we’re more easily accessible for our customers wherever they are. We know that people don’t only shop in one place anymore. So needing to be in a grocery store, also in a drugstore, also in a… You know online so that it’s very convenient for our customers wherever they are.

Nina Mullen: [00:34:11] I think surrounding yourself with people who bring out the happiness in you. I think we all have relationships that we cling on to for whatever reason that no longer serve us. So I think feeling empowered to really focus on those people, whether they are… For me, it’s definitely like my co-founders, for instance. They are the source of light in my life every day, and my partner. Making sure that you are surrounding yourselves with those people.

Nina Mullen: [00:34:55] Grove Collaborative, Thrive Market, Juice Press, as Maria mentioned, Standard Dose, and a number of other places. You can check out our website. We have it Where To Find Us Page.

Nina Mullen: [00:35:08] Thank you, Maria. It was great to be on today.